116: Follow Up: California Passes New Family Vlogging Law
Today’s episode is a follow-up to Episode 65, The Dark Underside of Family Vlogging, Part 1, which aired almost a year ago. My guest from that episode, Cam, returns to discuss her reaction to a recent big development in the world of family vlogging. Cam grew up as the child of one of the first well-known “Mommy bloggers,” and is an international advocate for the children of influencers and family vloggers. She shares her perspective on the new California law. Join us!
Show Highlights:
Understanding the basics of the Child Content Creator Act in California to protect kids’ rights (similar laws are being passed in Illinois and Minnesota)
Legal ramifications for parents who don’t follow “the 30% rule”
Children on reality TV shows do NOT fall under the new law.
Understanding the Coogan Law
Cam’s perspective on the protections of the law for children—and what she wishes the law included
“The right to forget”: what it means and why it’s not included in the law
Cam’s thoughts about a recent scary cancer diagnosis in light of her past history with vulnerability at the hands of her mom’s vlog
Growing up with NO boundaries or privacy
Laws in CA, IL, and MN to protect kids from being exploited
Resources and Links:
Connect with KC: Website, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook
Get KC’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: www.strugglecare.com/promo-codes.
-
KC Davis 0:04
Hello, you sentient balls of stardust. Welcome to struggle. Care. I'm your host, KC Davis, and we are back in the studio with Cam. You'll remember cam from several episodes ago where we talked about family vlogging. Cam's mom was one of sort of the OG family mommy vloggers, and I wanted to sort of do this little catch up, because there's been kind of huge news in the family vlogging world. So cam, thank you for being back with us.
Cam 0:29
Thank you so much for having me again. Hello, hello.
KC Davis 0:32
Okay, so the big news is that California has passed a bill that relates to family vlogging. So share with us what that is. Yeah,
Cam 0:45
so similar to the bill that was passed here in my home state of Illinois that protects child vloggers or child influencers, we were able to talk to legislators over in California, we were able to speak to Governor Newsom and kind of express how necessary this bill is in a state like California, because, as you probably know, it's kind of like a quote, unquote, right of passage for family vloggers to pack up and move to California because of opportunities, or whatever the case might be. So we brought that to their attention after they were kind of seeing the work that we've been doing in several states around the country and with kind of comparing it to the Coogan law and explaining how, you know, these brands will seek out family bloggers so they have kids, but they don't have to pay the children legally. They were kind of horrified that this was able to go on for so long, and so they kind of copy and pasted the bill from Illinois. 30% of the revenue will be protected for the kids when they turn 18, which, you know, 30% is 30% but I still think it should be at least 50, but it passed, and yeah, I don't know. I'm sure we'll see a lot of family vloggers start to move out of California soon.
KC Davis 2:03
So when you say protected, you basically mean like, if I was to get a payment from a brand to make a video and my kids are in it, I would be required to put 30% of that payment into a bank account for my kids, and I wasn't allowed to spend it. Is that what that means? Yes, correct. So
Cam 2:19
you would be required by law, essentially, to have a Coogan account that's similar to what it's being compared to, and you would have to put 30% aside for your child. You can't touch it, and it's only accessible to your child when they turn 18.
KC Davis 2:37
And if a parent doesn't do that, does that give the child legal recourse when they turn 18. If that money's not there, yes,
Cam 2:44
it does, because legally, they are supposed to follow what is now being set up like if you are there's basically regulations and guidelines now. So if you're going to choose the route to post your child on social media, to monetize your family, to monetize your children, you have to do it the right way and set these things up now, of course, there's not like, you know, the government isn't gonna get like, a ding, a notification if someone doesn't do that. It's just kind of like, but you'll
Speaker 1 3:15
have recourse when you Right exactly. So for when I
Cam 3:19
like to compare it to like Alana, like Honey Boo Boo. Her mom was supposed to set up a cougan account for her for a few different things, and she never did. And so all of that money is missing, and legally, Alana is able to take action against her for the certain things where the Coogan account lies, not the reality TV, because those kids also aren't protected. But like the things she did where she as a child, was paid, she's able to legally go after her mother. I
KC Davis 3:45
don't think I realized that it doesn't apply to reality TV. Did I hear that? Right? Yeah. So children
Cam 3:51
on reality TV shows, they are not protected by the cougar. They actually have no protection so they can film from sunup to sundown. They don't have to. They don't pay the kids legally. It's up to the parent to kind of pay that. It's to just be ethical,
KC Davis 4:09
yeah, which doesn't happen. I
Cam 4:13
don't know if you remember, but when a lot of the stuff about the Duggars was coming out, I think her name is Jill, she said that her parents had were supposed to set aside money for the kids, and then her dad gave her $1,000 after like, 20 seasons of being on the show as a child. And you know, so none of those kids have that money, because those parents take it. And you know, it's their responsibility to, like you said, Be ethical, but they aren't. It's about even the John and Kate Plus eight kids like those kids you know, didn't have any protections as well.
KC Davis 4:48
And so for people who are listening that maybe aren't familiar with what the Cougar law is, maybe they didn't catch our last episodes. It's basically a law that regulates child acting how many hours a day they're. They can work, you know, how when they can get their education, and what happens to the money that they earn? So I am a little shocked to hear that that doesn't apply to reality TV. Yeah,
Cam 5:12
it's also something that we've kind of been advocating for, in a sense, just because reality TV is blown up. But yeah,
KC Davis 5:18
it's mild. So okay, two follow up questions. One is, are there any other protections in the law besides just the financial protection? And two is, are there any protections that didn't make it into the law that you would have liked to have seen?
Cam 5:32
So some of the protections that have made it into the bill, that I do think is important is parents have to keep kind of a log of how many minutes or hours their child is working for them, for like social media or whatever. And so it kind of goes hand in hand with the cougan law. So like these kids can't necessarily be exploited to the point where they are like their life is working for the camera every single day, all day, like there's no separation between reality and what's posted online. So I think that parents keeping track of how many hours they're making their children work. One, I mean, I think that's ethical. I think that that's really important. And two, I think it puts a responsibility on the parent, so they can kind of have perspective and see kind of how long they're making their child work, you know, because at the end of the day, kind of, I think a lot of people just think it's simple to just put your phone in front of your kid and be like, Oh, this is easy, whatever. But when you're looking at it on paper and you're seeing like, oh, I had my kid working for five hours today, you know, I think that kind of might put some into perspective for people.
KC Davis 6:53
Well, it strikes me as something that, you know, okay, so that's not probably enforceable, or if it is, it's probably really easy to get around. But I actually still think that it's a really like healthy law to have, because I feel like it's making a statement, which is like making it's like forcing people to recognize, like, No, this is work. You are requiring work from your child. This is not I have a little family camcorder, and we're recording happy family memories like, I think it is. I think making an important first step of saying, like, no, like, this is a thing, and we're gonna, like, officially, state legally that this is work, right, and you are forcing your child to work right? So I think that's a good first step. Is there anything that you would have liked to seen in in the law,
Cam 7:40
absolutely, the right to forget part has really been something that I've advocated for, these bills in every single state. However, it unfortunately hasn't made it in a bill yet. And what is that? So the right to forget is when the child turns 18, the child influencer turns 18, they would have the legal right to have any or all of the content removed off of the social media platform that their parent posted. So not only would we be holding parents accountable, but it would also be holding these social media platforms accountable. There are a few platforms who have been fighting against this. However, in recent light, they've actually been advocating with us. Now, Facebook was really against this. They lobbied against us really, really hard in Washington, but they were with us when it came to the Maryland bill. So
KC Davis 8:35
it's interesting, because this is people may not know this, but the right to be forgotten is a legal right in the EU so in the European Union, which is basically, like, if you don't want to be online, like you have a right to have things taken down online that are about you. And I obviously there's some nuance to it and things like that. But yeah, it's interesting. It does feel like it's not surprising to me that you would run up against resistance to that here as, like, a uniquely American culture around, like, sort of, maybe tangentially related to free speech, but it's kind of like this, no, I have a right. Like, you have the right to film anyone you want on in public. You have, you don't have a right to privacy in public, and someone can put it online. You can't do anything about that. And like, it does feel like there's kind of a uniquely American culture that would resist this idea that somebody would have the right to be like taken from the internet. But I'll tell you like. I'm sure you could relate like as someone who makes content. It's just like a totally unique experience to like blow up online, especially if you blow up in a negative way or in a way that gets criticized, and I can't imagine the trauma of blowing up completely against your will, like you didn't even put it online to begin with, or that you were a child, yeah,
Cam 9:52
and I think that's just again, like I could have biasness towards this, because whenever you Google my legal name, there's Photos. That pop up that I wish didn't pop up. I mean, that's why I don't go by my legal name on the internet. And I totally agree, and I think that's especially where we run into a lot of problems, because a lot of legislators that I've talked to around the country, every time we get to that part, it's kind of just like, oh, we'll see what we can do. We don't really, we don't really know how we can incorporate this? And it's, I don't think they realize that it's something that we can do, because, like you mentioned, this is something that happens in another country. So it's, I feel like we can definitely find a way to word this bill so these kids that have been forced to do things are protected because, I mean, hey, the post about me getting my first period when I was nine years old, that's still on the internet. I can't do anything about that. And it's just like, it sucks. It
KC Davis 10:51
does seem like it should at least apply to children. Absolutely, I
Cam 10:55
agree. Like, I
KC Davis 10:56
understand the argument against, like, oh, you know, if you maybe, if you did something horrible and it got publicity. Maybe you shouldn't, you know, be allowed to run away from that, but like a child, I think should have that, right?
Cam 11:08
I agree.
KC Davis 11:09
So switching gears just a moment, I wanted to ask you kind of a personal question that I already asked, if it was okay to ask, but so you recently got kind of a scary medical diagnosis,
Cam 11:19
yeah. So I've been advocating for myself to kind of get these tests done. It's taken a while, and I was recently diagnosed with stage four cancer. It's treatable, but it's spread, so it's a little bit scarier. I mean, cancer in general is obvious, obviously, just very scary. But, yeah, it's been interesting, kind of navigating the diagnosis along with having a platform of my own. Yeah,
KC Davis 11:45
I'm curious, like, how you know one of part of your story is your mom, like, very much publicizing your medical history and the things that happened to you medically, and the times you were in the hospital and and I'm curious, like, as an adult, how that still affects you, especially going through a big medical event like this,
Cam 12:05
yeah, so you know, when I first found out, I just panicked, and I had so much anxiety. And of course, it was because finding out I have cancer is scary, but I felt so vulnerable and so exposed. I guess I don't really know how to explain it, because, I mean, I'm in the privacy of my own home, but in my mind, it's like, oh my god, like it didn't feel in my control. And so I was just getting real, like I was isolating myself, like it didn't feel private. Yes, exactly. And it got to a point where I was starting to really isolate myself and not talk to anybody and like, I just was like, Okay, I'm just gonna keep all of this a secret. And like, I'm not gonna whatever. I'm not gonna just, I won't burden people with it, like it's my thing to carry and my partner, my fiance, Alex, they said, you know, after we were leaving the doctor's office, I just was like, Great, now I have to tell everybody. And, like, I have to update everybody. And my partner was like, No, you don't. They were like, you don't have to tell anybody anything until you're ready to tell what you want to tell. And I think, I think kind of getting a big diagnosis like that, I felt obligated to make like, update everybody. Like, get on all my social media platforms, and get on Facebook, which I haven't been on in years, and be like, I have cancer, but kind of having that reassurance for my partner of them, being like, you are not obligated to post anything. You are not obligated to tell anybody until you've processed this yourself and you're mentally ready to tell people. And I think kind of hearing that was just like, it was like, like a weight off my shoulders, kind of Yeah. Well, one
KC Davis 13:59
thing that kind of strikes me is like, as an adult who makes content about my life, like, I have a very clear line between, like, my real life and what I talk about online. And there's tons of things that happen in my real life that I don't talk about online, right? And I specifically talk about the things online in a specific way, but like, that's an adult, right? Like a child who just kind of has a camera put in front of their face and their real moments documented and then put online, like they're not gonna develop that same sense of boundary. And so it's interesting and heartbreaking to me that, like, after you got the diagnosis, part of your initial anxiety was already like, how am I gonna talk to the internet about this? Or, like, how am I going to update everyone? Or, like, how am I going to roll this out? It's like, honestly, like, the, you know what I mean, and like, that's such an extra anxiety. Like, how am I going to roll this out? Like, all the PR people are coming in,
Cam 14:52
yeah, it's just like, it's like, an instinct, almost, because, and I always say, like, I was literally raised on the internet, like, I, I. Grew up on the internet, in a sense, where not only was my parental Guardian, the person who was supposed to trust and protect me and teach me these things, posting everything. So like, I'm thinking, it's okay. So like, like, I'm a chronic overshare for a reason, because I I grew up without boundaries. And so that's something that, like as an adult, I'm really, really trying to work on in therapy, is knowing that these boundaries are okay. And even, like, I said, like, just that reassurance of being told, like, I don't have to run to the internet and immediately post this, like, I'm allowed to process this separately, and then if I decide to share, like, then I can share. It's just kind of like, oh, like, you're right. I can do that and you're right. It is kind of sad, like, you know, like, my first instinct was literally like, run to Twitter and be like, lol, I have cancer. Like, you know, like,
KC Davis 15:56
yeah, okay, so the one in California is the child content creator Rights Act, yes, and I just want to mention that in case anybody wants to, like, look it up and, you know, use it as a template. In Illinois, it's called the child influencer law, I think. But what's interesting is that Minnesota passed a similar bill that's going to be effective next year, that prohibits children under the age of 14 from engaging in the work of content creation, and requires adult content creators to delete content if a minor appearing in the content requests removal. Yeah,
Cam 16:28
that one is huge. That one I am very, very excited about. I don't think a lot of people know about it, because it's Minnesota, which, I mean, no shade to Minnesota, but it's just, you know, focused on California, but I'm so thrilled about that one, especially because on social, and this is something I have been saying to every legislator that we've met with on social media, there is a rule that you have to be 13 or 14, depending on what platform to even post on that platform. So seeing Minnesota actually kind of enact like, Hey, if you're under 14, you can't have these kids working for your social media account, I think that that's really huge. Like, I think that it's I think it's going to protect a lot of kids from being exploited, and I think it's going to protect a lot of kids from thinking that oversharing or just constantly posting everything on the internet isn't okay. Like, I think, I mean, 14, obviously you're still a child. You're still so young, don't get me wrong, but I think at 14, you're smarter than you are at six, you know what I'm saying? Like, you have more awareness, is what I'm trying to say. Well,
KC Davis 17:43
that sounds like great news. And I hope that you know, if you're listening from other states and this is something that interests you, you'll go and look at those laws and see write a letter to your local government, see if we can get more of these laws passed. Cam, thank you so much for taking the time to come in and update us on that and to share a little bit more of your story. And I really appreciate the time. Thanks for having me. Of course, have a great day. You too. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai