08: When Creators Collide, Part II with Kate Leggett
If you joined us for Episode 7, you heard the beginning of my series with Kate. If not, you can listen to Part 1 on the Restoring Relationships Podcast. Kate and I met because of our differing viewpoints as we interacted through TikTok videos. We have since taken the time for discussion, proving that disagreements, conflicts, and drama are part of normal life that should be approached with mutual respect and understanding.
I’m continuing the conversation with Kate Leggett, a student in her final semester of graduate school to be a Marriage and Family Therapist. Kate uses her TikTok channel to help restore relationships. Even though our relationship didn’t begin well, we are making strides in communicating with respect and understanding around disagreements and conflicts. The ability to gain a fresh perspective and engage with another person in the face of disagreement is an important topic in today’s world! Listen in and be the “fly on the wall” as we model real-life conflict, relationships, and reconciliation. Join us for a closer look!
Show Highlights:
Why KC’s initial reaction to Kate was aggravation
The idea behind KC’s context: “How people treat you when they are angry is more revealing than how they treat you when they are happy.”
The idea behind Kate’s context: “Anger isn’t necessarily the issue, but the lack of repair after the anger is the issue.”
What our backgrounds and upbringings teach us about anger, hurt, abuse, relationships, and our worthiness
Why it’s different trying to communicate to the masses, like online, rather than on a one-to-one basis in a relationship
What Kate wishes she had done differently in her initial exchange with KC
Why we should be able to expect creators, especially those with expertise, to be accountable for their words
Why it’s tricky to make mental health content on social media
Why therapy content can’t replace in-person therapy
Thoughts on relationship boundaries, “gray areas,” and why “people are not disposable”
The difference in “Setting boundaries” vs. “Being boundaried”
Resources:
Connect with Kate: Website, TikTok, Podcast
Connect with KC: TikTok and Instagram
Get KC's Book, How to Keep House While Drowning
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KC Davis 0:05
Hello, you sentient balls of stardust. This is struggle care the podcast with your host, KC Davis. And today's episode is a special episode. It's actually a part two, where I talk with fellow content creator and therapist, students, Kate leggett, Kate and I got into a bit of a disagreement online, and then we sat down to hash it out together to have an honest, vulnerable, open conversation. So you don't want to miss part one. Part one is actually happening over on Kate's podcast, which is restoring relationships. So head over there, listen to part one, and then come back here for part two. So without further ado, welcome to part two.
Kate Leggett 0:44
The real with me, Casey, how when you saw my first video, what did you think? What were you like? Because you saw I was
KC Davis 0:52
totally aggravated? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think I mean, that happens on social media a lot, especially because in the context of like, 60 seconds, yeah, there's so little room for nuance. And sometimes you can be bragging about something. And there's several points that you could make, right. And you're choosing one point. Yeah. And I think what is hard is that when you hear someone say, well, but here's this other point that I think goes into this conversation is one thing, but then sometimes, if I hear someone say, like, no, that point is wrong, because x, and that was my first impression when I watched your video. And but the other context of that, though, is that like, if you and I were just friends that we were like sitting on the couch, and I was like, hey, what do you think about this? And you're like, I don't feel it. I'm not feeling it. Because I think this, then that would have been like a completely different context. But for some reason, when I make videos on like, social media, what it feels like sometimes sometimes it's just the amount. You know what I mean? It's like the ninth stitch that day that I've seen. Yeah, yeah. But like, I was watching something recently, and like the scene was this woman was giving her paper, like her research, like paper at a conference, like her thesis or something. Yeah, something right. It wasn't like her PhD. But she had written this paper. Gotcha. She's presenting it at a conference. She gets like, halfway through and this guy in the audience stands up and is like, how do you sort of reconcile that with these new papers that we found? And she was like, what new paper? Yes, no remaining, like correspondence. And they were like, oh, no, there is it was found two weeks ago. It's over at my college. And she was like, Oh, I look forward to reading and then she like goes about and he's like, Well, but it completely disproves your whole point. And I'm not saying it's like that at all. I'm just saying that like, the feel like the gut feeling as a creator sometimes, yeah. Is that sitting on the couch with a friend just sort of, or like, I call my friends who are therapists all the time? And I say like, here's the thought I have in there, like, No, that's wrong. But sometimes when you're making forward facing, like educational content, yeah. That's what it can feel like. It's like someone standing up in the middle and being like, no wrong. And whether they mean that or not, that's sometimes like the initial reaction.
Kate Leggett 3:17
Totally. I mean, to be honest, I've like cringe watching both of the video. So like, you made the first video, I think I your context, was maybe talking about a neighbor. Like was that kind of what you're thinking like when someone's Oh,
KC Davis 3:33
so the TikTok that I made was the one more I said, I have a boundary that I go by, and I apply it to everyone. And that is you're only as good as how you treat me when you're angry? Mm hmm. Okay. Yeah. So that was the comment. Yeah. And it blew up. Because obviously, there are lots of ways that you could take that there are lots of like, personal experiences that you can kind of project onto that. And, and people did like, there were some people that were like, Absolutely, yes. And then there are people that like, no, absolutely not, don't judge me by my worst moments. Yeah. And like the context that I was referring to, was I was thinking about how so many times in relationships that are really harmful, toxic, like worst case, relationships that are abusive, but even ones that are just toxic? Do you know what I mean? I think that what happens a lot of times is that when we think about relationships that are harmful or degrading to ourselves, we picture an abusive person being abusive all the time. Right? Right. Right. Like and surely that exists right there. It does exist that there's like the guy that comes home and dinner's not on the table at exactly six and he like bangs you over the head with a plate, right? That exists but I think that a lot of people have the idea that that's what abuse and degradation, right bad toxic relationship look like. And then what they're experiencing is that this person is sweet to me and kind To me, most of the time, but when they get angry, they tell me I'm a stupid cut. Who in No wonder nobody loves you. But it only happens when they're angry. And so they're living this life of well, it's just because he's angry. And some people grew up in an environment where they think that that's just what everyone does when they're angry. Right? Yeah.
Kate Leggett 5:24
I mean, I grew up in that environment. Yeah.
KC Davis 5:27
Like that was sort of my context was like, totally, we need to judge people by that standard, not just how, how you try, gotcha, when you're happy with me, is the standard, that I judge people by how you treat me when you're angry with me, like, Are you capable of like, treating me like a human being with dignity even when you're angry with me? Right. So that was my context.
Kate Leggett 5:53
And that makes total sense. I think anger is a really hard, complicated thing to deal with and talk about in real life, because it's so scary. And I think especially with women, it's, you know, our anger is more internalizing, and it's depression and anxiety more than it is yelling and screaming all the time, or, you know, or so anyway, I think it's such a nuanced thing. I appreciate your different context. I definitely looking back was coming from my context, obviously. And I think what would have been more helpful and constructive,
KC Davis 6:34
Before you tell me that, I totally want to hear your context, though.
Kate Leggett 6:37
Yeah, okay. Well, I appreciate that. My context is that anger isn't necessarily the issue. It's the lack of repair after anger, that's the issue, it can be so destructive. But at the same time, if someone's 20 years old, and at school, they were bullied, and on the bus, they were bullied. And at home, they were neglected. And, I mean, you know, we envision that as like, you're saying, kind of the incessant assault, and it's not like that. It's more like those five comments, maybe from the same person or random, you know, whatever. And, you know, I think that's, especially now in schools, like kids on social media in high school, like, I can't even imagine the language that they're just around, you know, it's kind of I think of that cruelty as, like a second language in a way, you know, if you're smaller, you have to adapt in a way that is effective for you. And a lot of times, that's, you know, being the meanest person possible. I mean, I recently read this book by Jon Ronson. It's. So you've been publicly shamed. And it literally talks about people that have been canceled, it's real stories, it's so good. And it just taught the he interviews this troll from, I don't know, Reddit, or some online community. And she gives kind of context and a face to a true on online troll. And it's like, they're this person that has zero power, anywhere, and even out in the world. And like, people can't loiter anymore. Like they can't hang out in general areas, because of like, Stop and Frisk is out at us. Yeah. So anyway, so they're this just powerless person, and they don't know anything else. And so I think people like that still can have a healthy relationship if they want. So it's more so like, you're gonna be this way. Like, it's going to be natural for you when you get angry to like, cut throat. But if you recognize that and like, become aware of that, and like, builds, you know, change, like there's an opportunity for change, right? Yeah.
KC Davis 8:49
And what you're saying is, you are still deserving of love and compassion, even that person, and they actually, here's how I experienced that and how I experienced it a lot of times is that so when I made that tic tock that was my context, that was my and even if I really look at myself, and I identify my own personal context, which is that I grew up in an environment where for in sort of different people, but all in my childhood, were very cutthroat with me, and cruel to me when they were angry. And I went through so much hard work, trying to get sober trying to heal trying to be a healthy person, that I no longer have any tolerance for anyone that treats me that way. And again on that axes, right, like, I'm not gonna like throw away my you know, Mom, if she gets angry and said something, right. But if I make a new friend or dating someone, and that is something that comes up with them, what happens with me is, Hey, you are a person, you have dignity. You have the right to recover at your own pace. I don't think you're unworthy of love. Hmm, but I'm not going to continue a relationship with you like that you're not the person for me where your places are. And I think a lot of times what happens, especially in talks about this is that like, I'm almost talking as if I'm the therapist of that woman who's like, but he's nice most of the time, or that man who's like, well, she's great most of the time, but then she, you know, tells me that I'm worth nothing, and no one will love me, and someone else hears it, but like you hear it, and what you think of is like, you're the therapist of that person sitting in your office crying, because when they get angry, they fly off the handle, and they feel like they don't deserve a good healthy relationship, because they keep hurting people. And your job is to come around them and say, like, that doesn't make you not worthy, right how to do it again, I wish I would have chosen a different language than saying, you're only as good as, because that implies that I'm making a judgement about their worthiness. And that wasn't my intention. And so and I've tried to explain that, but yeah, you know, people felt very triggered by that, that the goodness was referring to like, goodness of fit, or like, good for me.
Right? Right. Like, I'm not going to judge you on how you treat me when you're nice. I'm Judging You by how you treat me when you're angry with your dad, I'm not judging your worthiness, but I am judging whether or not I'm going to be in this relationship with you appropriate to that X Y axis. So it was an interesting interaction, because I thought that there's this very interesting conversation in the intersection of cut off culture, and like boundaries and toxicity that I think we're still trying to figure out because we've swung to both sides, right on from this sort of, like white supremacy cut off, act the right way, or I'm done with you. And we're trying to say, Well, let's not do cut off culture. But I think sometimes we swing all the way to like, you should accept all behavior from all people at all time, right? When the truth is so nuanced.
Kate Leggett 12:03
I totally agree. And it's, it is so nuanced. And I think, you know, so your context, if I'm getting this right is like kind of when you're meeting new people, and when you're choosing, like when you have choice and still like autonomy, and my context more, is it within the context of a long term relationship. So again, so, you know, say, you grew up this way, you got married, you've been married for 15 years. And then you're kind of learning about all this toxicity, and you're going to therapy, and you're like, oh, shit, like, this is so bad. What do I do, I go online, I look at all this stuff. And everything's just like Leave, leave, leave, leave. And it's like, so much more complex than that. And I think that's a swing the pendulum thing where women, for example, haven't been able to leave a marriage, you know, ever, until, you know, 1973 or four, I think we can have a credit card like, so women haven't been able to leave before. And then now we have the option. But like, I just think it's fascinating that even when you have the option you don't like what is that? And so I wanted to add a nother voice to the conversation of like, you don't have to just like leave right now. And because that perpetuates the breakup makeup cycle. And it's like not as simple as when they're angry or what because you probably do it to like, that's the thing is like, they might do it, but you probably do it too. And even if you don't do it in the same way, you might, you know, a lot. Esther Perel talks about how women lie by omission or like denying more so than, like, an explicit lie. And anyway, so I think that influence of social media all there's so much information, and I think my voice on that platform is just like, it's not all or nothing. And there's always like, I just believe so much in redemption and restoration of relationships, especially like people aren't disposable, your life isn't disposable, like, you don't have to leave your kids and your whole, you know, like your whole life to like, be healthy and safe. And so
KC Davis 14:13
I think the interesting thing to me about making, like mental health or therapy content is that if we had an actual couple and an office, like if you and I were both like tag teaming, like therapy, and we were both like seeing a couple, and we had to decide whether to give the not necessarily advice, but whether or not we think, Hey, we should encourage this person to break this relationship off. Or we should encourage this person to not just, you know, toss away something, I bet you 99.9% of the time that you and I would actually agree on which of those things to say, based on one specific individual when we could see all of the different variables, all of the different like what is behavior, how long has the behavior been happening? What is this person's willingness to work on it? What's this person's willingness to work on it? How long have they been together? Like, I bet you we would agree, because there'd be times when we would be like, ooh, considering it's that type of violent behavior, or it's been that consistent of toxic behavior, that this person doesn't seem to want to change that content. He, you know, the gaslit, whatever, like, we'd be like, Oh, you're better than this baby. Or he'd be like, No, you know what, like, you guys are both healing. Like, I don't need to throw away a 15 year marriage, because you're both coming like that, when you're making content for the masses. It gets really tricky to communicate in a way that has enough nuance that truism like, Hold truth for people, right? Make sense.
Kate Leggett 15:48
Yeah. And I think what I'm getting is like, when the relationship is there, like when you and I are in the room with these people, we've spent time like so much time with them, we really gotten to know them. That's when as people we can kind of have it's, like, see it for what it is. Whereas online, there's no relationship. And so everyone's coming from all their different experiences, and it's just like a mess. And yeah, I think my favorite thing I've learned in school is like, you know, the highest like, factor that determines a positive client outcome is the quality of the therapeutic relationship. Like, it's not the technique, it's not the research, it's not the treatment, it's like, it's literally the quality of the relationship. And that's totally missing on social media, like, especially for with creators and audiences. And so I think it's really powerful that we can connect in this way. And kind of, I mean, I definitely, like feel badly about how I communicated my contacts. And I think I could have added a lot of, I think I could have given a lot of like, I don't know, cushioned it a lot more and like seeing you and validated your point, while also making mine. I think that I chose the approach that was like mine over yours. And I think that just that's not as helpful and not the kind
KC Davis 17:18
And I hear you, I hear you and I think that that's like a lovely thing about you, you know, just like I'm reflecting on like, probably should have said good. But what the other thing that I think this brings up that's really interesting is that therapists are seen as professionals, and when we speak in a session, or when we write a paper or we write like, it's like we have all this time to formulate our thoughts, choose the exact right words, things like that. But on social media, particularly on Tik Tok, where there's kind of a discourse happening. Even though I always attempt to be intentional, it's hard to feel like you get graded on every single word being the exact right word, every single intonation and every single and you're like, Okay, maybe, and then you end up kind of defending everyone and going well, it's an information superhighway. So like to see a video and go, wait, I have some input, and then go on there and give your input. Like, we should also have a little more grace for each other. Yeah. And, you know, okay, here's this feeling of defensiveness I'm having, but how can I use my own tools of regulation to sort of breathe through that? Let that sit and then make sure that when I'm actually engaging with that person, I'm not sort of like shots fired? Like, unless someone's obviously come at me and being rude. But yeah, cuz I mean, it's the same thing happened to me when people are like, good, good. I can't believe you said, good. You shouldn't have said good. And I'm like, Okay, well, I didn't mean it in that context. And then people were like, Yeah, but you should have known your audience. You should have known we would take that were like, yeah, maybe you're right. But also like, it's like, it's okay. Like, it's firing off the hip, right? Yeah. Yeah. Not most things I say on Tik Tok are not some long scripted, going through. I mean, listen, when I wrote my book, the amount of edits back and forth, and then it went to a sensitivity reader, right, someone that I paid to read it from a different point of view, making sure and I changed words, singular words, yeah, my book, because of the impact they might have on people. But I think we have to hold this tension of, yes, I can expect creators, especially ones that have some sort of social credit or some expertise to be accountable to their words, and recognize that like, this platform is not putting out content that is going through like several rounds of edits and making sure and that way, if they use a word here or there, they don't need to be crucified for it. Yeah,
Kate Leggett 19:39
I totally agree. I think that's a really great point. And that kind of packages, everything that I think is conflict resolution, and like a relationship and like health and growth. And I mean, because we're doing like when you're doing tic TOCs, three to four hours a day. You're just like, it's like, Oh, I'm just going about my day. I have this thought I'm going to post it and And then it's okay. You know,
KC Davis 20:03
Same thing that you talked about with like, relationship like cut off versus so and I think another great example of that, though, is when it comes to division of labor. Mm hmm. So there has been such an issue with women shouldering the whole division of labor, and men putting that upon them. And men not caring about that, and men being unwilling to step to the plate and redistribute that the pendulum has swung all the way over, where if someone makes a tick, talk about how, like they're frustrated that they're doing too much around the house, the comments are like, Leave him leave him, Lea, kick them, leave them. And, and here's the thing, like,
Kate Leggett 20:47
It's so funny to me,
KC Davis 20:48
Right. And so I think in that is that same nuance that we're talking about, where sometimes I see someone say something where it's like, no matter the context, that's not okay. And I wish that that woman could find a way to not put up with that. However, this is where I am like you where I'm like, Okay, you guys like, this is a systemic issue. And there are good men and loving fathers and loving husbands that are really operating under what I call Dad and male privilege. And they don't see it. They don't know what they don't know. They don't know what they don't know, they don't see it. And like, we don't need to throw away the whole relationship. Like it's like, yeah, exactly, like, give them the chance to go through a process of unpacking this huge piece of privilege, systemic, right blood. And it takes patience, and it takes
Kate Leggett 21:50
time. It takes time. Like, it doesn't happen like this. And I think that's the kind of goes back to the whole thing of like, if you're angry, you know, like, it's not just a transactional thing of like you being angry boundary or like, cut off, you know, like, it's a reciprocal thing. It's not a transactional thing. It's more like, over time, slowly, gently over time, but consistently, and giving people the chance, you know, but I think it doesn't make it any less painful, I think. And that's what is the thing, it's like, when we see that every time even though we know it, even though maybe we've worked through that, or we've helped people do that. It's still like, Ah, I hate this is this makes me feel so bad.
KC Davis 22:38
It's a tricky thing about making mental health content, because I don't want to make a piece of content that says, You shouldn't put up with you know, unequal distribution of labor, you should not, you know, live your life being like in this position of never getting to have your own identity, never getting to have your life with someone who refuses to take like, I don't want to make that content. And then someone who is married to a good man that doesn't see it goes, Okay, that's what Casey Davis said, I'm done with you. But conversely, I don't want to make a piece of content that says, you know, what, like, guys are really trying, like they've been indoctrinated their whole life, like we really need to have some patience, and some woman in a relationship where that man is refusing to do anything that saying, I don't care, Melissa, you're the one that wanted kids. I'm gonna go on my 10 day hunting trip. And you clean everything. You figure it out, like, I don't want that woman to hear that content go. Okay, well, I don't want to be like a bad person, or I don't want to not be nice. So I guess I'll just stay with it. And I think that is like the crux of everything we're talking about. Totally till right is like and I don't want because we want to help people. And I don't want either advice, piece of advice. Or even worse, I don't want some man to hear and be like, see, Melissa, you should be patient with me. Messing around the house.
Kate Leggett 24:02
I hate those comments. I get like, Oh, my boyfriend just sent this to me, like I don't know, like enabling his own thoughtlessness and negligence,
KC Davis 24:12
but I don't want our Yeah, it's our advice weaponized? Well. And I think
Kate Leggett 24:16
that that is a great reason that to, I think have these conversations and to bring, you know, another platform to a 62nd video or a couple interactions. And I think this circles back to the whole thing that struck me about you from the minute I saw your videos two years ago was that like you are doing what is best for you. And that is having an impact on everyone else. And I think like ultimately people get to decide for themselves like just because we're trained as therapists just because we have this following just because we have a TEDx talk in a book like we don't live your life and wake up in your bed and have The experiences you've had and have the job you have, and the kids and the family, you know, the work culture, wherever you are, like, we don't have that. So take it with a grain of salt. And like, if it brings you relief, if it makes you feel hopeful for the future, then maybe it's good for you. And if it makes, you know, like, I don't know, what's your own system of decision
KC Davis 25:22
What is your support system also, that's another reason for like, emphasis of, like therapy content can't replace in person therapy totally, because an emphasis therapist would be able to contextualize that advice for you and tell you whether or not that was good advice for this time. So even if you can't afford a therapist, like having a good support system of friends, people that you can check things out with like, because I could call a good friend that knows me knows my husband knows my marriage, and say, Hey, I heard this thought this content about how I should not put up with XYZ or how I should always forgive XYZ. And my support system, I think of it like a strainer. Yeah, right. Like I can put the whole can of soup in there. And they will be able to help me see. Okay, but Casey and this assertion, like you're someone who is so constantly struggled with boundaries, and like, yeah, I feel like you have to forgive everyone, because you feel like you have to be some good Christian girl. Or they can go, okay, Casey, but you also are so afraid of being abandoned, you have this history of abandoning people first, so that they don't abandon you. And I'm afraid that maybe this advice is sort of helping you do that, like, it's really key to have totally
Kate Leggett 26:37
I love that. I think that is ideal. And I think people that do have the support also have you know, that's you're very lucky, you know, and but it takes time to build and it's the most important thing ever, like when I got married is when I kind of realized the value of my girlfriends. I was like everyone matters. This isn't like the one person that's going to do everything like it's a system, like you said, and I think that's where social media can fall short as these parasocial relationships that aren't real relationships where people know you intimately as an individual, and they just know your online persona. And I think I love that. I think that's the biggest point that people matter. People aren't disposable, relationships are real. And that's like, my opinion is like, they're the hardest thing. But it's the bravest thing to face your shit and a relationship and, like, grow from the inside out in a way so.
KC Davis 27:40
And I think when we say people, I love that just like boiling it down to people are not disposable. Because I feel like that speaks to both truths that like you and I kind of feel passionate about, which is on the one hand like people are not disposable. And so like they don't deserve to be thrown away over one mistake. They even people with extremely ingrained patterns of sort of maybe reactive abuse or borderline personality disorder or PTSD, exactly at are having trouble regulating. Yeah, in the midst of overwhelming feelings. And sometimes that comes out as being mean. They don't deserve to be thrown away. Yeah, just because they like we don't choose how abuse shapes our reactions. And for some of us abuse makes us curl in and become a doormat and say yes, okay, no matter what, and for others of us, abuse makes us puff up and get big and reactive. So I will hurt you before you hurt me. Yeah. And there's not like one of those doesn't make you a better person or a more worthy person of being in a relationship and you're not disposable. You deserve somebody who will love you and work through that with you. And, and keywords also true that you are not disposable. And so if the person you are in relationship with regardless of how genuine their struggle is, continues to engage in behavior that demeans you and belittles you and makes you feel disposable. You don't have to decide that that person is not worthy of love to decide that. You don't want to be desolation.
Kate Leggett 29:24
Yeah, it doesn't work for you. Like you're not right fitting, you're not growing, you're not learning. It's not changing. I think that's like the key is like it's not changing, no matter what happens
KC Davis 29:36
And changing like long term, not just oh, tomorrow they're sorry. Right,
Kate Leggett 29:40
Right. The transactional thing like like a heart, yeah, it's deeper. It's not just behavior. It's an attitude. And, yeah, I love that.
KC Davis 29:49
And sometimes I need that support to help us figure out what's inside of that. How do I balance that? How do I balance the fact that I am a person who Who deserves love and community and respect? And that other person is too? So like, how do we navigate that? Because it's not true that like, one of us deserves to be abused just because this person deserves to not be alone. But yeah, right. It's also true that this person doesn't deserve to be thrown away just because they struggle in a certain way. And so how do we help people navigate relationships, where they are both worthy of love and respect and dignity. And sometimes, that will mean they stay together and reconcile the relationship. And sometimes it means that they decide to discontinue that relationship, in order to preserve both their own dignity and the dignity of the other
Kate Leggett 30:44
totally. And sometimes it's more nuanced, where they just need a break, and they need to move out. And they need to get different jobs where they're not working together and separate, but not in an existential way. And that's totally parts of it. But I think this has just been such an enriching conversation of you're so intelligent and see things and I think your platform is really I don't know, I just think this will have a huge impact, hopefully, thank you
KC Davis 31:11
It reminds me of sometimes when I'm talking to people that are married, and they're trying to like, quote, unquote, set boundaries, but the only like, boundary, they notice that is like, if you don't fill in the blank, I'm gonna leave. And but they're not actually like ready to leave, they don't want to leave. They don't want to do that. But they're so frustrated, because they can't get their partner to like, make some necessary changes. And so they come and they're like, Okay, so do I stay? Or do I leave? And it reminds me of what you said, where it's like, that's such black and white thinking, yeah, right. Like, those are the only two choices that I need to make them now. And I'm such a fan of reminding people that there's so much gray area in between, including, you know, okay, like, Let's separate, let's live in different places for a while. And you can live in different places and not be in relationship, but stay married, you can live in different places, and remain monogamous, but not see each other. You could remain living in different places and date each other.
Kate Leggett 32:14
Yeah. And, you know, I think of going back to how you said, people setting boundaries, it's kind of more on someone else's behavior than it is around your own well being. So I like to think of it as like, okay, when you do this, it makes me I get really angry. And when you continue to do it, I get angrier and angrier, especially when I'm telling you to stop doing it, it doesn't change. And for myself, I don't like myself, when I get that angry. I don't like feeling that out of control. And so because of that I'm going to take care of myself and remove might go to the other room or sleep in a separate bed or take a walk or take care of myself. I like thinking about boundaries is that too, because it's for yourself, but also acknowledging the other. But it's not like only the other because I think you know, I think the biggest to me a huge takeaway from this conversation is it's always and it's not either, or it's always and there's always gray area. And I think support is what helps you discern what that is.
KC Davis 33:20
I also think because I believe in boundaries in the same way you do I always tell people boundaries is not about how close I will let you come. It's about how far I'm willing to go. It's not about trying to control the behavior of people around me. Yeah, it's about understanding that there is a point where I end and you begin, yeah.
Kate Leggett 33:40
And understanding myself. Yeah. Understanding myself in this environment of you of this environment of the relationship. Yeah,
KC Davis 33:48
yeah. Yeah, I always like I think that being I try not to use the language of setting boundaries. I think that the better language is being boundaried. Ooh, that's good. Like, I am a boundary the person you have boundaries, whether you like it or not, yeah, I just am going to act as if I have them. I can honor them. And I think that's that understanding of like, there's a place in time, there's an emotional social context where I end and you begin, so I'm not responsible for what happens after that stopping point, right? I am responsible to you I'm not responsible for you.
Kate Leggett 34:28
Yes. Yes.
KC Davis 34:32
I'm not responsible for what you feel, but I am responsible to you, meaning I don't get to say, you know, I don't get to like act horrific towards you and and be like, I'm not responsible for your feelings like No, but I am responsible to you. I am receiving your feelings. Yeah, yeah. I'm responsible to, you know, how I treat you and my own behavior. Yeah, right. And
Kate Leggett 34:52
I think I think and there are limits to my responsibility also, like that's what you're saying not for but to Like record that in itself recognizes your own limits. You can't control someone else you can influence it. That's really it. Yeah. Well, I don't really know how to I haven't figured out how to like, end these things. How to land the plane. I want to lay it off awkwardly,
KC Davis 35:17
And I'm like, Okay, well, sounds good. Well, I can say that this has been a really cool conversation. This is like one of my favorite things to talk about is that sort of nuance between sort of this weird place we find ourselves in of giving, making mental health content, knowing everything is super nuanced, and dealing with how we contextualize that and how we intersect with other people who may be contextualizing it differently for different and very valid reasons.
Unknown Speaker 35:46
Yeah, and giving ourselves grace in the process of figuring it out in this, like ever evolving, ever changing, like, social media landscape. But yeah, it was really I feel like I'm gonna be processing this conversation for days. There's it was so rich with perspective and information. And yeah, I think most of all, I appreciate like, just the opportunity to, I don't know, connect over our similarities and our differences and perspective and, you know, respectful, fun engaging way. So thanks so much, KC.
KC Davis 36:27
Thank you.
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